TAMPA, March 21, 2012 – Following Mitt Romney’s victory in Illinois, the media buzz on Ron Paul has focused on speculation about him dropping out of the race. According to many sources, his delegate strategy has failed and his fundraising is drying up.
However, Ron Paul seemed as upbeat as ever last night during his appearance on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno. He noted that the delegate counts for many states are still unknown and that a brokered convention becomes more likely every day.
Several media outlets report that Paul has only secured one tenth of the delegates that Romney has secured. This presumably rests upon the assumption that the percentage of delegates each will eventually secure will mirror his percentage of the popular vote.
However, Paul’s campaign maintains that they expect to control a majority of the delegates in Iowa, Maine, and possibly several other states.
Continue at The Washington Times Communities…
>>>Implicit in much of the coverage of the delegate selection process is that it somehow disenfranchises those who only vote in the straw poll. Not so. All Republican Party members have an equal opportunity to become delegates. That they choose not to merely reflects their level of commitment to their candidate.
This is a false assumption, and I see nothing at all that supports your conclusion.
More likely, the people who engage in the primaries– which you choose to label a “straw poll”, make the uneducated assumption that they will be correctly represented in the delegate selection– which is a reasonable assumption, although technically incorrect in those states that allow non-binding delegate selection.
I seriously doubt that all but a very small majority in these non-binding states realized that their preference and vote is essentially meaningless.
Do you think for one second that all of these people who have voted for anyone but Ron Paul will be the least bit happy if Ron Paul walks away with the nomination?
Come on, that’s total bull, and we both know that.
The point here is that Ron Paul supporters have taken advantage of the ignorance of their fellow republicans, and their inherent laziness.
This is exactly why the entire U.S. government little represents the will of the people. It’s the same thing that goes on in Washington every day.
So now, Ron Paul is using this same excuse to win his delegates— and it has nothing to do with his desire to represent the popular vote– because it is clear that
he does not represent anything more than about 11% of the voting Republicans.
It has everything
to do with “what can I get away with.” Well well well. Looks like he’s made of the very same stuff of the people he criticizes.
>>>Paul reminded Leno that under those circumstances, even bound delegates from primary states become unbound and can “vote their conscience.” Paul believes he has a real shot to win in that scenario.
And I’ve got some great swampland in Florida you might be interested in.
Believe me, I have no love for Washington nor any politician I see in the race on either side.
But it’s the same old story from Ron Paul that we’ve seen in every politician as far back as I can remember.
“Whatever I can do to get my way- and the heck with the will of the people— because the people are too stupid to know what’s good for them, so
I’m going to decide for them.”.
This time, Ron Paul and his missionaries are claiming to be the righteous ones.
Reminds me of the crusades. And we know how that turned out.
Neil Slade
WOW, so people have not done there own research, do not have their own principals and stand upon these and Ron Paul is manipulating them?
I have followed Ron Paul for Over 8 years because I kept wanting my Congressman to have a clue. I avidly understand the Constitution by the concept it means LIBERTY, Free from intrusive Governments. I have thouraly studied the Declaration of Independence and am sure of the choices I am making to keep my independence and you call me clueless, LOL.
Keep watching TV to make your choices dude, really, this is nonsense and for all those as devoted as I, I commend them for honesty and bravery to go up against a monolithic establishment that is broken, flat out. You say you don’t like what they do but clearly you have no clue what to do about it.
We have a chance because we take the stand and by not we have no chance at all and since you have no clue what you stand for makes sense why you would come here and spill this crap.
Ignorance never achieved anything great, what is you greatest achievement “the observation of you country being destroyed before your eyes?” Find a mirror and look in it, realize what you really are and the go read the Declaration of Independence with a dictionary in your hand so you clearly understand the concepts that were shared because clearly from my perspective you are clueless.
I smell sour grapes.
If you don’t approve of the efforts Ron Paul supporters are making in the primaries/caucuses, then get the supporters for your chosen candidate to get off their asses and put similar investment of time and energy.
Simple as that.
Not sure what to say to you because you send a very mixed messages. I support Ron Paul all the way, not because I think he has a chance in hell against big money. But I also realize he has no chance in hell if we do not step up. Regardless this movement will not stop and the corruption in it will only grow this movement to stronger levels. I have personally decide these idiots are going down. You cannot have this much corruption with it being displayed every where. I think the brokered convention will close the deal on the corrupt and the GOP will be at the end of its life span for lying to itself and all those in it lying to themselves. You cannot lie forever, it always catches up with you, always. I am confident in this statement.
I was responding to Slade.
Great. Now we get the people who believe that doing the RIGHT thing (playing by the RULES) is now WRONG because “people aren’t aware of how it works.”
Orwellian reverse-speak, anyone?
Let’s see if I can illustrate this on a simpler level- because apparently this lesson is over the heads of at least two people here.
“Let’s take a vote— what do you want?”
Count the votes.
“Okay, thank you, and now we’ll do what we want and your vote doesn’t count.”
Alright.
Who am I talking about?
People will rationalize anything to get their way.
Neil,
I think it is clear that those commenting understand your point perfectly. It is you that do not understand theirs. The nominating process is promulgated and everyone has an equal chance to participate and try to become a delegate. Nowhere is it stated that the straw poll will determine the delegates selected to move on in the process. In fact, it is clearly stated that the straw poll does not determine the delegate selection. If people choose not to participate, they are not being disenfranchised.
Personally, I believe that the delegate process is better. Anyone can take 15 minutes to drive down to a polling place and pull a lever. Many do so without knowing anything about the candidate’s position. This process at least requires some effort before bestowing such enormous power on any individual. A completely uninformed person can still go through the delegate process, but at least we know they care enough about the political process to put in the effort.
Tom, I do have to say that this is SUCH a well-written article. I was tasked with explaining Illinois’ delegate process to the readers of our paper in 2004, and it had to be BOILED DOWN so much that I’m not sure it ended up being effective. The entire electoral process is NOT understood by the general public these days; so much of it has been “left out” of the public’s eye that only those with special interests go the distance to understand, let alone participate. So now, when those of us DO understand it and use it to the fullest advantage, we’re disparaged. If that doesn’t show how decrepit our country has become, I don’t know what does.
According to this logic, then people who take the trouble to run for office are also then more committed and qualified to decided what is best for you as well, correct?
I mean, these are experts in government policy, and they deal with this every day.
Therefore, if you’ve got yourself a seat in office, you should be able to decide how to vote- regardless of what your constituents have voted for you to represent.
RIght?
Complete non sequitur, Neil. Anyone care to take this one? I’m tired. 🙂
non se·qui·tur (n n s k w -t r, -t r ). n. 1. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence.
Well, the evidence as I see it is that Ron Paul supporters feel as they know what’s good for you and I, and therefore, they dismiss the popular vote of their fellow Republicans.
So my question is this– WHY EVEN BOTHER TO TAKE PRIMARY VOTE? Or a “straw poll” as y’all like to label it.
Why not just have direct delegate selection without any primary at all?
If delegates are not going to pay any attention to it– what is the point ?
I guess the answer then, according to Ron Paul supporters is that primaries are meaningless and unnecessary.
Might as well eliminate elections altogether.
Daryl, the email from the Travis County Democrats (as Chris indicates) atoncins more than I copied there. Here’s more:Very soon we will be sending out answers to such questions as: WHEN AND WHERE MAY I GET MY DELEGATE OR ALTERNATE CREDENTIAL? WHAT DO I NEED TO PRESENT AT SIGN-IN? I HAVE A NOTE FROM A DELEGATE APPOINTING ME (AN ALTERNATE) TO REPLACE HIM/HER . WHAT DO I DO? HOW DO DELEGATION CHAIRS KNOW WHO IS MISSING? I’VE BEEN ELEVATED FROM ALTERNATE TO DELEGATE. WHAT NOW? I’M COMING IN THE AFTERNOON. HOW WILL I GET MY CREDENTIAL? We are looking forward to seeing you at the largest Democratic County/Senatorial District Convention in Texas! Thank you all for your understanding and patience during this most unusual, but exciting! primary season. TRAVIS COUNTY DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION, SATURDAY MARCH 29, 2008Sign-in begins at 7:00 a.m. and ends at 10:00 a.m. As we are ex expecting thousands of people, please come as early as possible to sign in. We cannot stress this enough.Convention call to order is expected to be at 10:00 a.m.Expect the County Convention to last until at least 7:00p.mWe hope you plan to stay the day enjoying being in arena filled with thousands upon thousands of like-minded Democrats with only one thing on their mind- electing a Democratic President in November!!!PLACE: Travis County Exposition Center, Luedecke Arena, 7311 Decker Lane#37 Colony Park bus runs to the Expo Center about every 30 minutes for most of the day on Saturdays.Concession stand open from 7:00 a.m. until 7:00 p.m.Parking at the Expo Center is $5.I’m laughing at the line “We hope you plan to stay the day enjoying being in arena filled with thousands upon thousands of like-minded Democrats”… personally, I wouldn’t want to do anything with a group of people that went on for 12 hours, but being in arena filled with thousands upon thousands of like-minded Democrats… that’s a nightmare!
No, Neil. There’s a difference between understanding, acting upon that understanding for your own advantage, and acting upon that understanding for a bigger goal.
You’re saying that Dr. Paul and his supporters are taking the second option: for their own advantage or personal gain.
But the only personal gain I want is more freedom. For me, my family, for you, your family.
I want you to be taxed less. I want you to not have the threat of a tyrannical government looming over you at all times with NDAA. I want you to be able to buy a dollar’s worth of whatever you want to buy, not 60 cents on the dollar. I want your children and grandchildren to not be burdened with paying for the healthcare of people who should be incentivized to take care of their own health problems, not let the government decide what they should do and how they should do it.
That’s the greater good. I don’t know you, but I want that FOR you.
A government that adheres to the Constitution can DO that for you.
A president who abides only by the Constitution can help to provide that kind of government.
Dr. Paul would be that kind of president.
It’s fairly simple, really.
Yes, I remember the crusades well. Very simple indeed.
I think that’s the same line every politician uses.
Wow. Now that was full of condescension and disdain. I both understand and reject your argument.
You may also be missing the point about Ron Paul. He has little chance of securing the Republican nomination-he is starting a movement. His people are increasingly well placed in county Republican Party organizations throughout the country. This is a man who will never be President, but he will lay the groundwork for the post-Obama political landscape.
Perhaps you should stick to the Democrat politics for which you telegraph your affinity.
I cannot fathom where this all leads– so, at what point does “representative” government actually come into play- when does it mean something?
>>that only those with special interests go the distance to understand, let alone participate.
Well then, let’s completely do away with voting by “plain people” ALTOGETHER!
When “our guy” gets into office? Then- and only then- will voter’s preference be acknowledged?
Let’s see, when Kennedy won Chicago in 1960 with stuffed ballots— Then he listened to the voters.
When Bush won Florida– Then he listened to the voter’s wishes?
So, when Ron Paul wins office- then, he and has supporters will respect the wishes of their party members-
because, you know, until then, their measly votes need “interpretation”. Well, actually, just IGNORE how people vote, because “I” know what’s good for you, because I’m more educated and committed to MY cause.
Neil,
I agree it can be difficult determining when “representative government actually come[s] into play”
I think we have to be really precise in our thinking. It really matters what level of government you are talking about.
First, take the Republican Party caucus. This is not even a government body. It is a private organization going through a process about who its candidate is going to be. Sure, they take a straw poll of their members. But this is not an official vote for a government official. Then, they apply a pre-determined technical process about how to actually determine delegates. This process is governed by well-established rules. These rules must be followed or the organization has no credibility.
Second, take state governments. Here, I think “representative” government has more meaning. States basically have plenary power, somewhat limited by the Federal Constitution. The states are also limited by their own constitutions. But, since they can so much more, it’s important that their representatives worry about the will of the people.
Third, at the Federal level, there is in place a very limiting and strict set of rules (the Constitution) which are absolute limits on what the government can do, irrespective of what the people want. So here, the will of the people is irrelevant. Here, the purpose of elections is simply to decide what person to elect to perform Constitutional duties, and not so much to do stuff for their people. Where the Constitution DOES give power to the Federal government, then it is true that in these areas the representative should try to do what his people want.
Thank you Mark, well stated.
Neil,
The delegate selection system we are working with was setup by the mainstream GOP and Ron Paul supporters are simply operating within that framework. Now while you obviously don’t agree with it, that’s not really important because that’s the system. The Ron Paul contingency is working hard to change the system but must first get our people (it’s not just about Ron himself) into office where things can be changed over time. It’s a catch 22 that reminds me of a great quote I gathered recently, “It is one of life’s great tragedies that those of us who want nothing more than to be utterly free of the influence of government, must become political activists in order to achieve that goal.”
I am glad to see that you’re online playing Devil’s Advocate and forcing others to strengthen their positions through dialogue. Libertarians have been building their chops for a long time being almost invisible underdogs in the national political process. The difference this time around though is that the internet is giving the people the means to educate themselves away from the government controlled mediums. As long as this means of communication remains open and uncensored, we can expect movements that really represent the heart and soul of the people to continue building momentum. Before 2012, it was hard to imagine such a rapid rise to recognition as that which has been the rise of the once extremely fringe Libertarian movement in the modern United States. People from all walks of political affiliation are flocking to the Ron Paul campaign include many apathetic voters who have never felt politically engaged before. There is also an incredibly large following for Ron Paul outside the United States, especially among the people who feel that Obama lied to the world about ending the wars. These are just some of the reasons why Ron Paul ties or beats Obama in many recent polls IN SPITE of the media blackout and the GOP’s vote meddling around the country. The 11% of republicans that supposedly back Paul is the lowest possible (while remaining still believable) number the system is willing to give us, in a bold attempt to dishearten Paul supporters. It’s not going to work because we don’t pay attention to television numbers. We’ve learned better. Not even supposedly responsible media companies like NPR can resist leaving Paul out of coverage every chance they get. Meanwhile the powers that be withing the GOP rigged the vote in Iowa, Maine, Nevada, Florida, (all documented) and probably many other places and no one can do anything about it now because the GOP controls the primary elections. However, they can’t keep us down, and in post Caucus/Primary elections Ron Paul supporters now control the #1 spots in Maine, Nevada, and Iowa, and are taking prominent positions in many states. This revolution is bigger than Paul and it starts with the people educating themselves about the issues, the process and the candidates and choosing. This is not a top down campaign, it is an amazing showing of grassroots support. This should contrast sharply with Obama who takes huge donations from the likes of Goldman Sachs, many firms he helped bailout and some of the very conglomerates he controls (and who sit in his cabinet!) who in turn control the media. In the ultimate coup, he uses these companies he’s shacked up with to spread the media message to the Democrats in this country who are so blue eyed they can’t see anything except red=evil and thus they ignore all opposition without doing any research. Dems can love Ron Paul, and in many of the Ron Paul organizations around the country, a huge percentage of the volunteers openly admit to having voted for Obama in 2008. It doesn’t get much more convincing than that.
Bottom line:
Nobody forced us to rally behind a 76 year old Libertarian candidate with an incredible long and difficult bid for the White House ahead of him. We chose that on our own.
The way you speak on this website, it doesn’t sound like you even support Obama, although you probably voted for him because he’s “less evil” and supports programs that benefit you since it also can be inferred that you’re not the 20-something internet savvy new age voter. You sound like someone who doesn’t vote, and instead sits on the sideline taking sniper shots at those of us spending our free time organizing to turn the system around. I don’t suggest you have to love Paul, but this campaign is improving the lives of everyone who works on it without a doubt. You have the right to voice your opinion as we firmly support freedom of expression, ESPECIALLY if we don’t agree with the points being made.
I am going to express my opinion and state that although you sound sincere in your objections to our delegate selection process, and your insights are very profound……you come off as someone who is exceedingly bored. Someone trolling around the internet picking fights [might I suggest the Santorum Forums if you must ;)]
Take my opinion however you like, but I would suggest a better use of your time than hurling bricks at Ron Paul people (whom you probably have a lot more in common that anybody in the GOP) and always trying to have the last laugh.
Although I suppose it can be satisfying at a very basic level, I think you have better things to do and you’re not really an instigator at heart.
– Sloth
I think the easiest way to put it is read the Declaration of Independence to find why you became this and make choices based on that and screw all this I have to be in a club of labels, or some party of supposed like minded.
What the heck is independent if you are truly not?
Ron Paul really does get the people thinking! The comment sections beneath any article about him are always scintillating at the very least.
Hello friends,
Lauren Fox of US News & World Report has quoted this article extensively in her piece entitled “There is Still Hope for Ron Paul.” Check it out: https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/ballot-2012/2012/03/23/there-is-still-hope-for-ron-paul
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Pingback: The Robert Scott Bell Show a James Babb, Traveling with Dignity, Nullify TSA, Tom Mullen, Ron Paul Delegate Strategy, Diabetes Cure, Knee Replacement Prevention, Polite Gun Society, Acne-ADHD Link, Gastrointestinal Napalm Relief and More on The Robert Sco